Due to a screwed up Yahoo account, Harmen Hielkema asked that I post
the following conversation with Rob:

>>> pistols? but wait a minute, I don"t have any fingers!.
>>>
>>> We assume so much when we don't know people.
>>> How often have you put your foot in it and realized that the person
>>> you've been slagging off turns out to have an unexpected a very valid
>>> reason why they can't communicate?
>>> Most of us are natural communicators, some write, some sing, some
>>> dance, some act, some make stuff. None of us do it in quite the
same way.
>>>
>>> "Those who know don't have the words to tell and the ones with the
>>> words don't know so well"
>>> Bruce Cockburn.
>>>
>>> Why not lay off Russ and give the guy a break. He's one of the
>>> gentlest human beings that I've been lucky enough to meet.
>>> Like me he's got no time for bullies.
>>>
>>> Harmen
>>>
G'day Gary This is what I wrote to Rob and he replied,
>>
>> I have met Russ and agree with you. All I have done is quote from
>> magazine articles and compared them to harryproas. I have never said
>> anything disparaging about Russ.
>>
>> I think you need to read the posts a little more carefully and see who
>> is bullying who. I have spent the last 6 weeks defending myself
>> against thugs.
>>
>> Please let me know where I have been a bully, and I will apologise
unreservedly.
>>
>> Russ knows where I am as I have emailed him. If he wants to discuss
>> this in private I have given him every opportunity.
>>
>> How is your boat going? Did the bigger one ever get to go sailing?
>>
>> regards,
>> Rob
>>

The I wrote...
> G'day Rob
>
> Thanks for your reply.
> It's this comment of yours that I took issue with...
>
> "Before that, I would like to take this opportunity to invite Russ to
> post. Joe says he monitors the list, gets annoyed about me, then
> emails his friends and asks them to post on his behalf. Maybe he is
> shy or wants to maintain his aura, but getting others to do his dirty
> work may not be the best way to do this, especially if they are silly
> enough to brag about what they are doing.
>
> His friends do as he asks (what are friends for?), but so aggressively
> and personally that they turn off anyone who might be tempted to join
> the discussion, thus making the list a war zone. Be so much easier
> for Russ to come on the list himself, post his opinions of his boats
> (and mine, if he has looked at them and feels he has something to say)
> and leave it at that."
>
> I know that Russ cannot communicate effectively in this medium so
others do it for him regardless of whether he wants them to or not. I
only get one message of three lines once a year from him and he calls
me his friend! He just can't type, hates, emails & computers (I'm with
him there) and doesn't want to spend the time learning.
>
> As it happens I have been following the thread with impatience,
frustration and some dismay.
> As you will have noticed I clammed up like a sea anemone when Jeremy
started his anti Harmen tirade some years ago. I realised then that
the proa-file was not the forum for me.
> For my part, I cannot access my Yahoo account even if I wanted to.
> I've shifted several email addresses since I first registered and
now there are three Harmen Hielkemas with a proa file account, all of
them me and no chance of reactivating my membership in spite of dozens
of requests for help from yahoo groups. Consequently I can't post
anyway, comes a time when you've got to say that's taking more time
and trouble than it's worth.
> We take so much for granted especially as some of you have less
trouble with the medium than others do.
>
> Re proas
>
> I've had to re build my life from scratch since being diagnosed with
Rheumatoid Arthritis in 2003, new job, new location everything, no
time to worry about trivial things like boats when you're in survival
mode.
> I still have Toroa & Takapu with me and they are in the slow process
of a repaint and modifications to suit my condition and reduced
physicality. We will be joining Paul Bowker next summer on the
Hokianga Harbour, which has become my new Home base, teaching some
keen locals to sail.
>
> Take a look at my blogs and our home and business site if you are
interested in the other aspects of what i do.
>
> www.waimalodge.co.nz
> Waima Lodge Fine Dining menus:
> http://menus-waimalodge.blogspot.com/
>
> Harmen's Art blog: www.harmen.co.nz
> Harmen's Sailing blog: http://harmenhielkema.blogspot.com/
> Harmen's Music blog: http://harmensmusicblog.blogspot.com/
>
> I appreciate your email Rob
> I invite you to post my mail to you in the proa group if you see fit.
>
> Cheers mate
>
> Hope we get to meet sometime.
>
> Harmen
> On 17/05/2008, at 5:46 PM, Rob Denney wrote:

And he replied...
>
G'day,

You poor bugger! I skippered a 14m cat for an englishwoman with
rheumatoid arthritis 20 years ago. Not a pretty sight. I hope you
are coping. If you really want to join the list (I completely
understand if you don't!), then email Marc Ellsworth at
hollywood2252@... He is a moderator and a nice guy and may be
able to sort it out. If not, try John Dalziel (Marc should have his
email), who is the owner. Do not mention my name, John hates me
almost as much as Joe does. Based on Joe's response to everybody
else who has posted anything vaguely supportive of Russ, you can
expect an avalanche of anti me emails from him once this is posted.

Nice resort! My sister used to have a farm up that way, nice bit of
the country. Nice blog, too. Lake Pupuke brings back many memories
of my youth.

Happy to post your post, but will not be changing anything about Joe
and Steve. Russ may well have problems typing, but that is no reason
to set these thugs onto me. Like I said, I like Russ. If you
could email him and tell him I mean no harm to him personally, but if
he would just call off his idiot "friends", or at least get them to
drop all the animosity and just talk boats, then this will all dry up
very quickly.

I have found Russ' phone number. I will ring him tonight and see if
we can sort this out. Tomorrow I will post the following. If you
want anything changed, let me know.

start
Harmen Hielkema asked me top post the following. He is another proa
owner dismayed by the way this thread is going, but as he cannot join
the list, has asked me to post. He is a friend of Russ', but one who
does not think that mud slinging is the best form of defence.

G'day Rob,
Thanks for your reply.
It's this comment of yours that I took issue with...

"Before that, I would like to take this opportunity to invite Russ to
post. Joe says he monitors the list, gets annoyed about me, then
emails his friends and asks them to post on his behalf. Maybe he is
shy or wants to maintain his aura, but getting others to do his dirty
work may not be the best way to do this, especially if they are silly
enough to brag about what they are doing.

His friends do as he asks (what are friends for?), but so aggressively
and personally that they turn off anyone who might be tempted to join
the discussion, thus making the list a war zone. Be so much easier
for Russ to come on the list himself, post his opinions of his boats
(and mine, if he has looked at them and feels he has something to say)
and leave it at that."

I know that Russ cannot communicate effectively in this medium so
others do it for him regardless of whether he wants them to or not. I
only get one message of three lines once a year from him and he calls
me his friend! He just can't type, hates emails & computers (I'm with
him there) and doesn't want to spend the time learning.

As it happens I have been following the thread with impatience,
frustration and some dismay.
As you will have noticed I clammed up like a sea anemone when Jeremy
started his anti Harmen tirade some years ago. I realised then that
the proa-file was not the forum for me.
For my part, I cannot access my Yahoo account even if I wanted to.
I've shifted several email addresses since I first registered and now
there are three Harmen Hielkemas with a proa file account, all of them
me and no chance of reactivating my membership in spite of dozens of
requests for help from yahoo groups. Consequently I can't post anyway,
comes a time when you've got to say that's taking more time and
trouble than it's worth.
We take so much for granted especially as some of you have less
trouble with the medium than others do.

regards,

Harmen

On the strength of this, I apologize to Russ for any pressure I put
on him to post here. However, if he could call off the dogs, or
instruct them to talk boats, not people, then I am sure we can get
back to civil behaviour very quickly.

regards,

Rob

Holy Moley

Harmen